Should Homeschoolers Teach Logic?

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Logic and rhetoric are extremely popular and enthusiastically sought after by those in the homeschool community. But how important are logic and rhetoric? How much weight should they have in our homeschool day?

Logic is a skill or a tool like a hammer. A hammer can be used to build something useful or as a murder weapon.

The words logic, classical, philosophy, dialectic, and reasoning sound extremely intelligent to our Greek ears. Homeschoolers immersing their children in the study of formal logic have well-meaning motives; it is understandable that homeschoolers want their children to become critical thinkers. We want to be able to defend the Gospel logically. We want our students to learn to evaluate their beliefs and the beliefs of others before they take on a course of action.

But logic and reality are not the same. Logical consistency does not always mean truth.

Sample of Man’s logic:

Now they said: Come now! Let us build ourselves a city and a tower, its top in the heavens, and let us make ourselves a name, lest we be scattered over the face of all the earth ! ( Genesis 11:4 )

Sample of God’s non-syllogistic logic:

God said, Nevertheless, Sara your wife is to bear you a son, you shall call his name: Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as a covenant for the ages, for his seed after him . ( Gen 17:19 ) Sarah became pregnant and bore Abraham a son in his old age, at the set-time of which God had spoken to him. ( Gen 21:2 ) He said: Pray take your son, your only one, whom you love, Isaac, and go you forth to the land of Moriya and offer him up there as an offering-up upon one of the mountains that I will tell you of. ( Gen 22:2 )

Human reasoning is limited by human experience. Eve trusted her reason over what God had said and logically concluded that eating the fruit of the forbidden tree was the best choice for her and Adam. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did ea t ( Gen 3:6 KJV).

Come, Let Us Reason Together

Come, let us reason together ( Isa 1:18) and look at more examples from the Bible.

Was it logical for Peter to get out of the boat?
Is it logical to consider it all joy when you encounter various trials ( James 1:2)?
Is it logical to believe that God created the earth in six days?
Was it logical for Cain to sacrifice fruit of his own work instead of a blood offering?
Was it logical for Noah to build an ark where there was no water?
Was it logical for man to build the Tower of Babel?
Was it logical for Abraham to move away from his family and all he knew based on what he had heard from an invisible voice?
Was it logical for Sarah to have a baby so late in life?
Was it logical for Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt?
Was it logical for Gideon, with the weakest clan, (Manasseh), to save Israel from the Midianites?
Is it logical to turn the other cheek when someone slaps you?
Was it logical for Christ, who was completely without sin, to give His life for us when we are so full of sin?
God has every logical reason to punish us for our sins; but in His grace and mercy, He offered us His pardon through His Son.

There is no doubt that God wants us to use our minds. You are reasoning and analyzing now as you read this. Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord ( Isa 1:18). The word reason in the Hebrew is a legal term used for arguing, convincing, or deciding a case in court. God said, My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge ( Hos. 4:6).

Knowledge, Understanding, and Wisdom

The Bible teaches that knowledge, understanding, and wisdom are virtues to be sought after. We are commanded to get wisdom and to get understanding ( Prov. 4:5, 7; 16:16, see also Ps a. 119:104). Paul prayed for Christ’s followers to grow in knowledge, wisdom and understanding ( Eph. 1:16-18; Phil. 1:9; Col. 1:9).

The Bible speaks negatively of ignorance ( Ps a. 73:22; Isa. 56:10; Rom. 10:3; 1 Cor. . 14:38; 2 Cor. 2:11; 2 Peter 3:5). Paul frequently made the statement, I would not have you ignorant ( Rom. 1:13; 11:25; 1 Cor. 10:1; 12:1; 2 Cor. 1:8; 1 Thess. 4:13; See also 2 Peter 3:8, 1 Tim. 1:13).

The Hebrews, however, never viewed wisdom as merely factual, cognitive information. Rather, wisdom was seen as understanding how to apply knowledge to a specific area. Wisdom began with the ability to see and evaluate all of life from God’s point of view (Proverbs 1:7).

Critical Thinking

Critical Thinking is the ability to look at information, understand it and then determine how it relates to what one is studying. Being able to think critically helps us express ideas clearly and systematically. A critical thinker uses broad in-depth analysis of evidence to make decisions and communicate beliefs clearly and accurately. The lessons in the Heart of Wisdom unit studies encourage critical thinking skills through sorting, sequencing, selecting, connecting, rejecting, and classifying the information that has been learned.

If we teach our children to become critical thinkers do we really need to also teach formal logic? Logic has limits. Countless problems have been presented to graduate students that arrived at the wrong answer (as defined by the rules of logic), whereas other students arrived at the right answer for the wrong reasons. Logic is not the only means of gaining knowledge and understanding. There is also experience, intuition, direct revelation, inspiration.

Author of several critical thinking books, Diane F. Halpern gives the follow fictional vignette that was taken from a real-life debate.

As far as Joan’s opponent was concerned, the debate wasn’t going well. It was clear from the sea of nodding heads and sounds of “uh huh” and “yeah” that Joan was scoring points and convincing the audience; whereas, her opponent seemed to be losing support every time he spoke. He wasn’t surprised; he had been warned. Joan had studied reasoning and now knew how to make people believe anything. Soon she would have everyone convinced that the war was justified and what was wrong was right. The way she’s going, she could probably make people believe that day is night. It certainly wasn’t fair, but what can you expect from someone who studied reasoning?

We normally think of logical reasoning as an important critical thinking skill—the sort of skill that you would use to make valid conclusions when dealing with information that is complex and emotional. But here one debater accused the other of cheating by using logical reasoning as a trick. Is this the way we want to win an argument?

What is Logic, Rhetoric and Dialectic?

Formal logic is the study of the principles and methods of argumentation. The study of logic came from ancient Greek philosophers Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates. Aristotle (student of Plato and called “the father of logic”) compiled the system of formal logic in use today and wrote a thesis on rhetoric still used in universities today.

Aristotle defined rhetoric as the art of persuasion. An argument in logic is a set of statements. Some of the statements serve as premises (or statements of evidence), and others serve as the conclusions that can be drawn from the premises. Syllogism is the most common type of argument form in deductive logic. Example: All German shepherds are dogs. All dogs are mammals. Therefore, all German Shepherds are mammals. The conclusion is the final statement; the other two statements are the premises. Aristotle taught that syllogism was the main instrument for reaching conclusions. Aristotle believed that knowledge of the world could only be obtained through experience.

Dialectic is defined by Funk and Wagnalls’ Dictionary as the art or practice of examining statements logically as by question and answer to establish validity. The Socratic dialectical method was one of cross-examination. In Plato’s dialogues, Socrates characteristically argued by means of cross-examining someone else’s statements in order to pull out the contradictions in the other person’s position.

Philosophers and educators have occasionally recommended the teaching of formal logic as a means to critical thinking. Not all educators agree with this theory. Robert H. Ennis’s book Philosophy of Education reports that, although rational thinkers exhibit certain proficiencies, tendencies, and good habits, he explicitly rejected formal logic as a method of teaching rational thinking as “too elaborate.”

Research on cognitive processes reveals that there is a great difference between everyday reasoning and the logical system devised by logicians. A great deal of everyday thinking is practical, intuitive and emotional. Thinking in formal logical terms requires explicit training, but it is still difficult for highly-educated people, even those trained in logic. Wason and Johnson-Laird created an experiment called card-tuning to test the ability of adults in formal thinking. The results are so striking that the vast majority of adults, including trained logicians, not only got the given problem wrong, they usually gave the same logically incorrect answers.

Human Reasoning or the Bible?

Based on our world view, our final authority is either human reasoning or the Bible. The same natural human reasoning that the ancient Greeks so venerated is manifest in today’s liberal secular/humanistic thinking. Secular liberals believe that all men are searching for truth and every man gets a portion of it, so nobody is wrong and nobody is right.

MAN”S LOGIC: It doesn’t seem rational that God would make a Hell; therefore, they believe that there is no Hell. Reason says, “I don’t believe what the Bible says because it does not fit with my rational thinking.” Or “I can’t believe there is a God of wrath, so there must not be a God of wrath.”

Oswald Chambers said, “The salvation of God does not stand on human logic; it stands on the sacrificial death of Jesus. Sinful men and women can be changed into new creatures by the marvelous work of God in Christ Jesus, which is prior to all experience.”

Should a Christian Teach Logic?

Logic is not pagan or evil. The God-given ability to reason well is a critical thinking skill that is vital in science, mathematics, law, forecasting, diagnosing, and just about every other discipline. The ability to reason well is of great importance.

Critical thinking skills are not right or wrong. Logic is a skill or a tool like a hammer. A hammer can be used to build something useful or as a murder weapon. Logic skills can be developed as a tool to defend the Bible or to tear it apart. Are books good or evil? Books can be used to spread the Gospel or promote pornography.

Thinking along these lines—are cows good or evil?

In Bible times domesticated cattle were used by the Hebrews in many ways: as a food source (in 1 Kings 4:23 Solomon’s daily household ration included thirty cattle and oxen), as sacrificial offerings (Solomon offered twenty-two thousand oxen in 1 Kings 8:63), to pull carts ( Num. 7:3), as pack animals ( 1 Chron. 12:40), for threshing ( Deut. 25:4) and, together with sheep and goats, for milk products and dung.
On the other hand, the ancient Egyptians worshiped cows. In the wilderness, the Hebrews, looking back to Egypt, built a golden calf to worship. This idolatry brought death to three thousand Hebrews.
Today the majority of the population in America believes cows are healthy to eat. The average diet includes milk and/or hamburgers. The U.S. beef industry generates an estimated $175 billion in economic activity
Some people believe cows are full of harmful antibiotics and poison their body. Medical reports say eating beef has been linked to heart disease, high blood pressure, and strokes. Drinking milk has been linked to asthma, allergies, intestinal bleeding, and juvenile diabetes. Cutting dairy products out of your diet gives you a greater chance of avoiding bronchial, respiratory, and stomach problems.
The Hindu religion teaches the sanctity of animal life, and while they themselves usually live in abject poverty, the animals among them are maintained in idleness. Over 50% of the population of India is malnourished while large portions of government funds go to provide food, shelter and health care for cows.

The answers to our questions will depend on who we ask, and their worldview and their reasoning. We can’t always trust human reasoning, especially in moral and spiritual matters. But this fact does not negate the importance of logic and reasoning.

It is essential to adopt the attitudes and dispositions of a critical thinker when studying the Bible. Author Marvin Wilson asks excellent critical thinking questions of the Bible such as, “What is the inner world of biblical thought? What is the cultural mind-set of the authors of Holy Writ? Are we to understand the Bible chiefly through the eyes of Hellenism [Greek thought and culture] or through the eyes of Judaism [Hebrew thought and culture]?

Basic Bible hermeneutics contains logical principles that must be applied in order to correctly understand the Bible—who is the author, when did he live, what is his point of view, what was the cultural and historical setting of the time in which he wrote, to whom was he writing, and in which language was he writing?

Now, we have validated that reasoning is an important skill, but we must also recognize that there is an innate weakness in human logic. Logic means correct reasoning, but following logic does not always produce a valid conclusion. If there is not enough information or wrong information is in the chain of reasoning, the conclusion will be wrong.

Paul says, We know in part ( 1Cor 13:9), and we see through a glass darkly ( 1 Cor 13:11 KJV). Problems arise when we trust logic more than God or His Word. It’s really a matter of motivation, priorities, and balance.

Marvin Wilson describes the difference between block logic and Greek logic in Our Father Abraham:

The use of what may be termed block logic is another important contour of Hebrew thought. Greek logic, which has to a large extent influenced the Western world, was different. The Greeks often used a tightly contained step logic whereby one would argue from premises to a conclusion, each step linked tightly to the next in coherent, rational, logical fashion. The conclusion, however, was usually limited to one point of view—the human being’s perception of reality.

By contrast, the Hebrews often made use of block logic. That is, concepts were expressed in self-contained units or blocks of thought. These blocks did not necessarily fit together in any obviously rational or harmonious pattern, particularly when one block represented the human perspective on truth and the other represented the divine. This way of thinking created a propensity for paradox, antinomy, or apparent contradiction, as one block stood in tension—often illogical relation—to the other. Hence, polarity of thought or dialectic often characterized block logic.

It is particularly difficult for Westerners—those whose thought-patterns have been influenced more by the Greeks and Romans than by the Hebrews—to piece together the block logic of Scripture. When we open the Bible, therefore, since we are not Orientals, we are invited…to undergo a kind of intellectual conversion to the Hebraic world of the East.

Let us turn, then, to some of the many examples of block logic found throughout Scripture. The book of Exodus says that Pharaoh hardened his heart, but it also says that God hardened it ( Ex. 8:15 ; cf. 7:3). The prophets teach that God is both wrathful and merciful ( Isa. 45:7 ; Hab. 3:2 ). The New Testament refers to Jesus as the “Lamb of God” and the “Lion of the tribe of Judah” ( Jn. 1:29 , 36; Rev. 5:5 ). Hell is described as both “blackest darkness” and the “fiery lake” ( Jude 13 ; Rev. 19:20). In terms of salvation, Jesus said, “whoever comes to me I will never drive away,” yet no one can come “unless the Father draws him” ( Jn. 6:37 , 44). To find life you must lose it ( Mt. 10:39 ). When you are weak, then you are strong ( 2 Cor. 12:10 ). The way up (exaltation) is the way down (humility) ( Lk. 14:11 ). “Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated” ( Rom. 9:13 ; Mal. 1:3 ).

Consideration of certain forms of block logic may give one the impression that divine sovereignty and human responsibility are incompatible. The Hebrews, however, sensed no violation of their freedom as they accomplish God’s purposes. Upon a more careful reading of the biblical text, one can often observe that the Bible views one block from the perspective of divine transcendence—God says, “I will harden Pharaoh’s heart”—and the other from a human point of view—“Pharoah hardened his heart” ( Ex. 4:21 ; 7:3,13; 8:15). The same is often true of Scriptures which deal with the themes of predestination/election and free will/ human freedom.

In sum, the Hebrew mind could handle the dynamic tension of the language of paradox, confident that “all is in the hands of Heaven except the fear of Heaven”…Divine sovereignty and human responsibility were not incompatible.

The Hebrew knew he did not know all the answers. His position was “under the sun” (Ecc. 8:17), so his words were few (5:2). He refused to over-systematize or force harmonization on the enigmas of God’s truth or the puzzles of the universe. He realized that no one could straighten what God has made crooked (7:13). All things, therefore, did not need to be fully rational. The Hebrew mind was willing to accept the truths taught on both sides of the paradox; recognized that mystery and apparent contradictions are often signs of the divine. Stated succinctly, the Hebrews knew the wisdom of learning to trust God in matters that they could not fully understand.

While philosophical and structural divisions of learning obviously have an important role to play in contemporary education, our Western culture—especially on most levels of secular and Christian instruction—has provided little understanding concerning the nature of Hebrew thought. Thus we have the natural tendency to impose more rational and systematic categories of thought on the Bible. The Bible, however, tends to reject most carefully worked-out charts and thoroughgoing attempts at schematization. Neither God nor his Word may be easily contained in a box for logical or scientific analysis.

Both God and his Word have a sovereign unpredictability that defies rational, human explanation. [Not only because of our perceptive inability to see things invisible or to see the forest while we’re down here among the trees, but also because God’s motives, thoughts, methods and goals are perfect while our hearts and minds have been perverted by the Fall.]

The Semites of Bible times did not simply think truth—they experienced truth…truth is as much an encounter as it is proposition…To the Jew, the deed was always more important than the creed. He was not stymied by language that appeared contradictory from a human point of view. Neither did he feel compelled to reconcile what seemed irreconcilable. He believed that God ultimately was greater than any human attempt at systematizing truth. Walking in truth ( 2 Jn. 4 ) and living the truth ( 1 Jn. 1:6 ) were a higher priority than rationally analyzing the truth. In the words of the renowned biblical scholar Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchikk, “We [Jews] are practical. We are more interested in discovering what God wants man to do than we are in describing God’s essence…as a teacher, I never try to solve questions because most questions are unsolvable.” He concludes, “Judaism is never afraid of contradictions…it acknowledges that full reconciliation of the two is possible only in God. He is the coincidence of opposites.” (Wilson, p. 150-153).

The Hebrews of Bible times believed that “walking in the truth” ( 2 John 4 ) and “living the truth” ( 1 John 1:6 ) were higher priorities than rationally analyzing the truth.

The classical Greek education model focuses on literature and logic.
The biblical Hebraic education model focuses on God’s Word and faith.

Don’t We Need Logic To Defend Christianity?

According to the rhetorical and argumentative standards of Aristotle and the other humanists, every argument had to be answered.

According to God: Remind them about these things, solemnly calling on them in the presence of God not to argue about words, since that is of no use and tears down those who listen. Do your utmost to let God see that you at least are a sound workman, with no need to be ashamed of the way you handle the Word of Truth. Avoid all that profane jargon, for it leads people still further into ungodliness (2 Tim. 2:14-16).

Teaching Critical Thinking

I used A Case of Red Herrings with my children to improve their thinking skills. It’s a book on critical thinking that teaches the student to follow lines of reasoning, generate hypotheses, analyze information, test possibilities, and look beyond the obvious. It involved reading short mystery stories where some of the clues gave a false lead. It was fun and educational. The children learned how to note key words and understand critical thinking. We used the book to improve study skills.

There are fine Christian resources on logic such as The Thinking Toolbox: Thirty-five Lessons That Will Build Your Reasoning Skills and Logic in 100 Minutes and The Fallacy Detective: Thirty-Six Lessons on How to Recognize Bad Reasoning, 2nd Edition. You can use any of these resources to introduce logic and critical thinking to your children. Do they need formal logic? Pray about it. God has a plan for your child. Ask Him and He will equip you to prepare them.

You can teach critical thinking to your children daily while studying God’s Word. One way is by asking open-ended questions to clarify their ideas and beliefs (Jesus taught by asking questions). Ask them what they mean when they comment on a passage. Question their comments to discover their assumptions to find if their ideas line up with what Scripture teaches. Challenge them to validate their ideas with evidence from another portion of Scripture. Ask for examples of how they have practiced or applied the information. Ask your students to narrate or rephrase a passage.

Finding the Balance

Knowledge, understanding, and diligent study are of utmost importance for believers. But we also see the problems with large amounts of time devoted to the study of formal logic.

A good test of our priorities is how we spend our time and money. If you spent curriculum money on books on logic but have no Bible study tools in your library, you probably need to rethink your priorities. If you spend two hours at night planning logic lessons and an hour each day teaching logic, but only spend 15 minutes in Bible study, you need to rethink your priorities. Pray about priorities and balance. You will never go wrong when you immerse yourself and your children in studying the Word and in solid biblical teaching.

Nothing in our life—not logic, nor math, nor language, nor literature, not even family or church—should have higher priority than the Word of God. When some thing replaces the lordship of Christ, that thing can become idolatrous and cause us to be susceptible to spiritual disaster.

There is an account of an old recipe for chicken which started out with this instruction: “First catch the chicken.” The author of this recipe knew how to put first things first. It all comes down to established priorities—we put the things that should be in first place in their proper order. When the study of formal logic to defend God’s Word takes the place of time spent studying God’s Word, we have lost our way.

Much of the above is from The Heart of Wisdom Teaching Approach. Download more excerpts here.

Robin Sampson heart of Wisdom

Heart at Home Blog: I organized my computer cables–come see!

Footnotes

Walvoord, John F., Roy B. Zuck, and Dallas Theological Seminary. The Bible Knowledge Commentary : An Exposition of the Scriptures. Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1983-c1985.
Henle M. ( 1962). “On the relation between logic and thinking”. Psychological Review, 69, 366-378.
Halpern, Diane. Critical Thinking across the Curriculum: A Brief Edition of Thought and Knowledge. Lawrence Erlbaum Associates. Place of Publication: Mahwah, NJ. Publication Year: 1997. Page Number: 80.
Wason, Peter Cathcart Psychology of Reasoning: Structure and Content (1972) Harvard University Press .
Robert H. Ennis, “A Conception of Rational Thinking,” in Jerrold R. Coombs , ed., Philosophy of Education, ( Normal, Ill.: Philosophy of Education Society, 1974), pp. 3-30.
Chambers, Oswald. My Utmost for His Highest.
Achtemeier, Paul J., Publishers Harper & Row, and Society of Biblical Literature. Harper’s Bible Dictionary. Includes Index. 1st ed. San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1985.
Washington Times Editorial, http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20040115-085001-1690r.htm
The Environmental Impact of Eating Beef and Dairy Products”
Wilson, Marvin. Our Father Abraham: Jewish Roots of the Christian Faith, Grand Rapids , MI : Eerdman’s Publishing Co. , 1989, p. 5).
IBID
The red herring term came from the practice of using smoked herring fish to distract dogs following a scent trail. The strong smell would obscure the real trail. When an irrelevant topic is introduced to divert the attention away from the topic that’s being discussed, or an argument where the premises are not logically connected to the conclusion. It is also referred to as “changing the subject.”
Penguin logic cartoon is by Randy Glasbergen. Visit Randy’s site @ www.glasbergen.com

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There Are 48 Responses So Far. »

Comment by MorningSong :

WOW!! I am so glad I’ve come across HOW and your blog. I am at the beginning of my home school journey and feel so overwhelmed by all the possible methods. I feel like finding HOW and your blog have really made me think with a new perspective.

Thank you!

[Reply]
Comment by MorningSong :

Let me clarify – THANK GOD HE directed me along this path!!

Blessings!

[Reply]
Comment by Alicia :

This is a really long article and it is late so I will have to come back to read through it thoroughly but I will say I will certainly be teaching my children logic (I personally have been greatly benefited by reading The Fallacy Detective – I wish I’d known how to recognize a logical fallacy a long time ago, it’s cost me a lot).

What is thought of as logic, reasoning and rationality in the world is truly the opposite as one is doomed to irrationality when working from a false presupposition.

When one’s presupposition is correct all your Biblical examples take on an entirely new light.

[Reply]
Comment by Alicia :

Well, I made it back! I’m glad I read all the way through the article and gave it closer attention.

I confess I tend to be immediately suspicious when the topic of logic comes up. My husband and I came out of a church that held logic as Satanic and in their glorification of irrationalism denied the major doctrines of Christianity – “Scripture Alone”, the Trinity, and God’s omniscience and omnipresence among the top contenders. It’s actually quite ironic if you think about it.

This is something I’ve been thinking about the past few days and intending to post about at some point and now I think this article will come in handy. I’ll link back to it.

My position on logic is that it stands or falls on one’s presupposition, which you regularly refer to, it seems, as one’s world view. If one isn’t founded upon the Truth they can’t come to right conclusions even with the clearest thinking because they are not working with correct information. And then, when we do not have complete information the only logical thing to do is to let God be true and every man a liar.

Thanks for posting this article, Robin. It’s helped to clarify some thoughts that have been circulating in my head.

[Reply]
Comment by Sherry :

You have an award here:

http://ladyofvirtue.blogspot.com/2008/01/mama-archer-has-given-me-award-rules.html

[Reply]
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Comment by H0MEFree :

Wow! That was a really long post!

Teaching “logic” does not sit right with me.
Teaching basic common sense does.
I am concerned that this Logic Movement is, among other things, raising a generation of arrogant knowledge based people who will stand in unbelief of the things of God.

[Reply]
Comment by Alicia :

This post has been fueling some discussion between my husband and I and I have some questions and concerns.

Are your ‘Examples from the Bible’ claiming it was illogical for Peter to get out of the boat? That it is illogical to ‘count it all joy’? That it is illogical to believe God created the world in 6 days? .. and so forth?

I’m sincerely hoping not and that I’m just misunderstanding.

The things I believe only appear illogical when one operates their reasoning from premises formed from a secular humanistic world view as opposed to one founded upon Truth. Logical consistency does not lead to a conclusion that is inline with reality when the very premises one began with were incorrect.

I’m concerned with the example of God’s ‘non syllogistic’ reasoning. Again, it only appears that way if you’re operating from a secular humanist world view. God’s reasoning is perfectly syllogistic: “Everything God says comes to pass; God said Sara will bear a son; Therefore Sara will bear a son.” This could be done with all the examples given but I’m just going to throw this one out there in order to be brief and avoid redundancy.

Sincere regards.

[Reply]
Comment by admin :

You have misunderstood Alicia. The formal logic taught is from a secular word view– that is the point. I asked if it was logical for Peter to get out of the boat. I didn’t say it was illogical. According to Aristotelian logic is isn’t logical–not according to me. Thats why I don’t have use for Greek logic.

God’s logic is not the same as human logic. God sees all– we see in part. See http://www.math.umass.edu/~rsellis/pdf-files/Akedah.pdf

My main concern and reason for the article is to point out there must be BALANCE. Too many homeschoolers are spending hours teaching formal liogic and ignoring God’s Word.

Hope this clears it up.
Blessings,
Robin

[Reply]
Comment by Alicia :

I’m in complete agreement that God’s Word is to be central and foundational in the training of our children. Teaching logic without firmly establishing your children in Truth is to give them tools without providing them what they need to use the tools correctly. That is, it is our job as parents to provide our children with a Biblical world view.

I see now where our misunderstanding lies. You believe there to be more than one kind of logic when in fact there is not. The quotes incorrectly uses the term logic. What is referred to are different sets of applications based upon different premises. There is only correctly applied logic and incorrectly applied logic.

You say you don’t have a use for ‘Greek’ logic but you are using logic as Aristotle defined it in order to communicate and comprehend right now. You use the law of contradiction and seek to avoid the informal fallacy of equivocation. Logic is simply the rules for correct thinking – cataloging the mistakes and explaining the rules for avoiding mistakes. Gordon Clark puts it simply: “logic is the science of necessary inference. From such and such premises the conclusion necessarily follows.”

This is why people end up in the same error of Aristotle who could not successfully apply the rules of correct thinking that he recognized existed –> faulty premises.

My husband probably explains it more clearly in a response post which can be viewed at http://trembling.wordpress.com/2008/01/26/a-response-to-should-homeschoolers-teach-logic/.

Sincere regards.

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Comment by admin :

Alicia,

If you browse my site you will see the focus is on Scripture saturating the home. My homeschool testimony and the purpose of this site is to keep Bible the focus and not fall into academic focus as it often happens in homeschool families.

The Hebrews of the Bible used block logic not Greek logic. I quote Dr. Marvin Wilson’s explanation of block logic in my book “The Heart of Wisdom Teaching Approach”. Here is a brief portion:

Neither God nor his Word may be easily contained in a box for logical or scientific analysis. Both God and his Word have a sovereign unpredictability that defies rational, human explanation. The Christian dogmatic tradition has much to learn from the Jewish community at this point, particularly in its attempt to understand Jesus and Paul.

In this connection, Jewish biblical scholar Pinchas Lapide writes that…[Jesus] would certainly have detested as arrogant blasphemy any attempt to unravel and neatly systematize the mysteries of God.

In a similar context, Lapide reinforces the above point by commenting on Gentile Christians who try to squeeze Jesus and his paradoxes into a “logical straightjacket.” Says Lapide, “He [Jesus] is still protesting, ‘I am not cleverly-thought-out book; I am a human being, with all the inherent contradictions.’”

Lapide’s point is well taken. It drives the Christian back to the Gospels to consider anew such saying as Mt 10:34, in which the “Prince of Peace” (Mt 5:9; cf. Isa 9:6-7), says, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”

To the Jew, the deed was always more important than the creed…Neither did he feel compelled to reconcile what seemed irreconcilable.

It is our conclusion that the Church’s propensity for categorizing or methodologically organizing great theological systems of thought is at best risky business.

Our Father Abraham (Eerdmans 1998), 150-153.

[Reply]
Comment by Alicia :

Robin,

Just to be clear, I wouldn’t even say there needs to be balance. Scripture should saturate the home. I cannot comprehend in my mind any Christian attempting to train up their child any other way.

I’m sure you’d agree, Deuteronomy 6 makes it clear what role Scripture is to play in our homes and in raising our children: “4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6 And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.” [esv]

Even if these people you’re speaking of begin teaching the Word of God as much as they teach logic or any other subject – they are fall far, far short of God’s intended will for the home and child training. Wouldn’t you agree?

Sincere regards.

[Reply]
Comment by Alicia :

Dear Robin,

Please don’t misunderstand this as personal hostility – I know the internet unfortunately affords ample opportunity since we can’t fully appreciate each other’s tone as we would face to face.

It would appear that to continue the discussion would be unprofitable as to do so would necessitate merely repeating arguments already given.

With all due respect I have to simply state that although I heartily agree that those homeschoolers you refer to – as teaching formal logic while neglecting the teaching God’s word – do greatly err (for there is no logical thought, no correct thinking, that does not find it’s base presuppositions in God’s word), I maintain that the sources your information is coming from are misrepresenting logic and promoting fallacy.

My hope is that sincere individuals will, with humility, study these things out for themselves.

Sincere regards.

[Reply]
Comment by Sheila :

Well, being a simple small town, daughter of a logger and homemaker, married now to a modern version of the New Testament Timothy’s dad, I find this discussion smile-provoking.

I love this stuff! It intrigues me to learn and read and hear arguments and “logic” and reasoning and explanations…etc. Lately I’ve come face to face with this quiet voice in me (the Spirit of God I’m sure) saying, “Woman, what do your plans/thoughts have to do with me” (As Jesus rebuked his own mother).

I’m convicted personally that I spend way too much time trying to reason and explain things in my own life and when it comes to scripture, but even this weakness God uses to teach me how He thinks.

Without a doubt, unless we saturate our minds and our kids’ minds with God’s word we’ll naturally go the route of earthly wisdom or logic. But while I saturate myself and must meditate on and teach God’s word to my kids continually, heavenly wisdom would reveal to me that I don’t naturally understand any of it and that if I am to drink from the Springs of life (God’s word) I must first, like the newly delivered Israelites in Exodus 15:22-27, confess that these waters are bitter to me!

God’s word isn’t naturally palatable/reasonable to any human nor practicable, it requires that simple childlike faith of applying Christ’s cross to His word (just as those Israelites threw in the tree God told them too and the waters then became sweet.)

In other words if I’m to walk in or teach Godly wisdom to my kids I must be fully dependent upon God to do the revealing of what it means and how it applies to my life and my kids’ lives as He did the revealing in Jesus.

As Jesus said, He didn’t come to destroy the Law and Prophets- all the “logic” with which the religious Jews of the day thought they had down in understanding and practice- but He came to fullfill it. He reveals what the logic of God is. He reveals what it looks like when we reason from the scriptures and live them out.

Sorry, that was a bit of a tangent in my thinking, as I realize this discussion and post bring up the issue of whether we should teach our kids logic, not whether God’s word is logical.

I guess what I’m trying to relate here is maybe what Paul’s heart was in 1 Corinthians 4:14-15. There are a lot of things to teach our kids in Christ, they may even have a lot of different teachers (we being the primary ones), but more important than whether we should or shouldn’t or how we should or shouldn’t teach logic is will we be a “father” (or mother) in Christ to our kids. In other words, as Paul did, can we say we have “begotten” our little disciples through the gospel and urge our kids to imitate us?

Teach Greek logic or Hebrew, teach a certain method of interpretting or applying scripture or another…but surely in it all and above all, labor in prayer and in pouring out your life, letting God’s word be incarnate in you and me, that our kids might see Jesus.

I sometimes think as a Christian woman who loves literature and reasoning and words and the study of the Bible and writing (even if it’s called a horrible name like blogging )I wonder if the people I have influence on (chiefly my own kids) would look at me and listen to me and hear the authority of God speaking through me as I deliver His word like food to them? Or would they, like many of the people in the days of Jesus, hear me as just one of many other “teachers” who have a take on God’s word. (See Matt.7:28-29)

I’m not even close to being a Hebrew scribe…just a hick momma, but in my natural pride I can without intention many times ramble on about what I think God’s word is saying or reiderate a postion I’ve been taught is true of God’s logic and think myself knowledgable, when in reality I’m just another modern scribe-wanna-be.

Only Jesus teaches with authority.

Whatever I allow of HIS thinking (which is completely other and higher than mine) to come through my mouth and my life in the presence of my kids and others will, by His power, be something which grabs hold of them, and messes with their natural lines of reasoning too. From there it’s God’s deal. He brings the increase. He knows what kind of soil the seed has fallen on, I don’t.

God told the parents of the Israelites He delivered from Egypt to teach their kids certain things, both in word and in action, and from doing that, God said, their kids would ask questions (Exodus 13:11-16); Deut.6:17-24).

He didn’t say if you do these things your kids will have the right answers.

I think God is teaching me to not be so concerned that my kids “know the right things” but that I walk in obedience by faith before the God who’s delivered me and then trust that God’s word has authority and will stir up in them (as I’m faithful to obey Him) questions which only He can answer.

Thanks for this stirring post and discussion and sorry for my long-windedness! I’ll be posting a link to this post and comments on my Timothy moms blog (www.timothymoms.blogspot.com)

Thanks Robin!
~sheila~

[Reply]
Comment by sprittibee :

I’m not exactly sure I understand what the problem is here… I read both of your articles and see that you both promote scripture and Christ as the logical answer to human’s need of salvation. I understand Robin’s position – telling those who are homeschooling in Christ that they should focus on scripture and not JUST logic (I think she correctly stated that logic was not bad)… I’m not sure what the issue is.???

After all, God says in His Word that he confounds the wise and makes them look like fools… and that His thoughts are not man’s thoughts and a way that seems right to a man may lead to death.

I think that Homeschoolers who are NOT Christians will rely on Logic incorrectly (and probably won’t be reading this article anyway) and those that are Christians will be encouraged not to forsake the scriptures in their pursuit of academics and Greek deductions of reason.

Creationism is one huge example of this. The Bible says that scoffers will come and say that the world has gone on for all these years exactly as it always has – and they will be willingly ignorant of God’s hand in creating the World. This breaks us all down into two camps – those who believe God and those who don’t. Critical thinking (logical thinking) can only take you so far in the Creation argument. You have to have faith to get to the final conclusion. I think what Robin is trying to get across is that sometimes our logical response as humans is to JUST BELIEVE. Focusing first and foremost on scripture helps us to see that we have a foundation in JUST BELIEVING and it spurs us on to a correct premise (world-view) so that FAITH BECOMES REASON and LOGIC.

My reason and logic is Christ alone. He’s the reason I am homeschooling. I find that extremely logical based on my time spent in scripture. I think both of you ladies believe the same that I do. Makes no sense to go around in circles about it.

Maybe instead we should all pray for those who are trapped in an incorrect premise and relying on false logic to persuade others… “blind leading the blind into a ditch”.

[Reply]
Comment by sprittibee :

Ps… Robin, if you haven’t read these articles on my blog – they mildly correspond with this topic.

One is on the difference in worldly knowledge and Godly knowledge. I wrote it when I first started blogging. I had a Spirit moment – I’m not usually a big preacher. I went through my phases with that when I first became a Christian and have since decided that I needed to focus on my own walk before trying to right anyone else’s. That’s why I’m not a writer. Maybe that day will come… who knows? Right now I write for me. Here’s the post:

Wisdom from the Back of My Yearbook

The other post is about Vincent Van Gogh. He was one of those Christian children who grew up with a strong background in Christ and a good Christian family… and allowed the authorship of humanistic and secular false doctrines to turn his heart. It eventually ended in his madness and suicide. I think you will find he is a case-study of the reason you wrote this article. Sad that we as parents can not prevent our kids from false premises and bad choices once they leave the home.

Vincent Van Gogh’s Fall Into Madness

Thanks for your prompt to read this article. It has inspired me to increase my Bible and Prayer time each day – for myself and the children.

Sometimes I think that the most analytical people are the most unhappy. It reminds me of the story in the Bible about the little children coming to Jesus. We must accept and enter as a little child. There is joy in accepting and obeying without having to pick things apart to death.

In Christ,
Heather

[Reply]
Comment by Barbara :

very interesting discussion here Robin!

i agree with Heather basically…and i think we do need to pray for those who are trapped in the “academics” mindset…as stated, they are not bad, but they are not all…balance, as Paul wrote about, is needed in all things, from food to curriculum! (ALL things are lawful, but nnot all are profitable)

stand strong Robin!

blessings
Barbara

[Reply]
Comment by Gerry :

My wife and I love this site SOOO MUCH!!!! You always keep us on our toes. Your blogs are alwasy so thoughtful, intense, and loving. I’ve read through the article, but need to go back to ruminate a bit more on some of what was presented. However, I wanted to provide a few thoughts, while I had a quiet moment.

Years ago, when I was in college and working at a coffeeshop, a very old woman (she was in her 80s) walked up and asked, “You want to know what’s wrong with people nowadays?”

I have always respected the wisdom of years, so I enthusiastically asked, “What?”

Her response: “They’re educated beyond their intelligence.”

That comment stopped me dead in my tracks, and still has the same effect on me today.

Of course, all kinds of things can be deducted from that statement. For me personally, it has been a constant reminder not to think too highly of my own thoughts and theories, but rather let God teach me. At a more basic level, it reminds me that nothing is more important than good old common sense. That doesn’t mean that I don’t value critical thinking.

Critical thinking, combined with faith, helped me get through college. I went to a catholic univeristy (though I was never catholic) and was required to take 2 religion courses, as opposed to theology courses. The one was run by an old priest who was determined to proove that every miracle in the Bible could be logically explained. The one I remember was the manna and the quail. He explained that each year the quail would fly over the mediterranean, and because the trip was so long, they simply fall out fo the sky. The class was packed full because it was a required course – some 40 students. Most were catholic, 3 were American Baptist, 2 were southern baptist, and then there was me! LOL! I got nicknamed “Fundamentalist Gerry” by the old priest!

So back on the quail. Once he made this statement, my hand shot up: “WOW! Isn’t it amazing that God’s provision got the Israelites to that particular spot at just the exact right time for the quails’ migration?! It truly was a miracle.” There were other “locigcal” situations that came up as well.

I’ve foudn over the years that debating the Truth is pretty fruitless. But if one starts from the premise that what God says is pretty accurate, and then tries to understand things from His perspective, then a lot more of it makes sense.

Whether it’s science or human behavior, there are certain laws that God put in place. It’s perfectly acceptable to use logic to arrive at understandings, provided that when we don’t arrive at an answer, or the answer we want, we humbly accept the shortcomings of our own logic.

God isn’t anti-logic – or illogical for that matter – but He abhors pride.

In addition to that, besides teaching our children the ways of God, I believe we’re responsible for teaching them the enemies schemes and the worlds ways, so that they’re sharp enoguh not to fall prey to them. They need to know their enemy and how he operates in order to gain discernment. Discernment=Wisdom. Wisdom can only be gained through experience, versus knowledge, which is through facts. Experience is not something that happens through doing and relationships. This, the relationship, is the premise of imparting Wisdom to our children, and God’s imparting his wisdom to us.

That’s my armchair thoughts for the moment. Hope it provokes some thinking.

[Reply]
Comment by Ted :

I find it profitable at this point to clarify my views, as I think I am being misunderstood. I wrote the response article and http://trembling.wordpress.com.
Do not think that because I support the use of logic that means discrediting anything supernatural in the Bible. Nor do I sit at home writing out logical formulas to figure God out. There are things in the Word of God that are difficult to comprehend and seemingly mysterious and indeed apart from the Holy Spirit we cannot discern the spiritual. What I am trying to get at here is that God does not ask us to bury our minds in a box when we read His Word because they just a bunch of arbitrary statements that we just need to obey because he is God. Yes we need to obey God’s Word because it is God’s Word whether we totally understand it or not. No, we cannot understand everything by logic. But in some of the great confessions like the Westminster and the 1689 London Baptist Confession, the first article is the one regarding scripture and it is quite clear that these men regarded clear logical readings of the scriptures as very important. The reason for this is because when it comes time to define what exactly it is that we believe, we don’t just throw a bunch of random statements together, but instead formulate clear, comprehensive statements so as to distinguish error and heresy from truth.

[Reply]
Comment by truevyne :

My primary goal as a parent is impart a relationship with Christ to my children. I long for their hearts to burn for His Truth and their lives to reflect His Gospel of Love.
A secondary goal for me as a parent is to provide my children with the best education possible. I believe logic, like sciences, literature, and maths is simply one subject of many which can take one deeper into learning. Learning well causes sparks to ignite our calling in God.
There is a danger that education could become a god in the hearts of some people, but I am certain formal logic taught rooted in a Christian world view is not the culprit. Our depraved human condition of sin is to blame for our fall.

[Reply]
Comment by Ted :

Amen truevyne, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[Reply]
Comment by H0MEFree :

My prayer today is that there will not be division. But unity despite differences in opinion on what the word of God says.

I am concerned that pride and possibly even haughtiness has entered the pictured in this “debate”.

I pray you will take a deep breath and take this matter humbly before the Lord and lay it at the cross. Let Him direct. The risk in letting the Lord direct is that you may find, either of you or both of you, that you are in error. In error in belief or behavior.
If our hearts are truly surrendered to the Lord, then we have nothing to fear in genuinely listening to Him.

Finally, I submit to you that we let LOVE be our highest aim. (Are we truly loving our neighbor with our attitudes or behavior?)

“May the words of my mouth and the meditations of my heart be pleasing to Your sight”

[Reply]
Comment by H0MEFree :

Common sense and Logic are not the same thing.

There seems to be a confusion with the terms and their meanings.

[Reply]
Comment by sprittibee :

I thought of another example that illustrates both points here…

David slung a stone at Goliath and he fell dead. Before that stone was flung, David reasoned (because of his continued and close walk with the Lord and the evidences that had been shown to him of God’s power through his own life and answered prayers) that God was more powerful than Goliath.

The Israelite army – obviously relying on human logic (apart from God) deduced that Goliath was bigger than they were (individually) and therefore was an unbeatable opponent.

Both used logic. Only one acted on FAITH (and a view of the world that was built upon God’s Word).

Our goal as parents are to focus on the FAITH and God’s Word foremost. I think everyone in this discussion so far completely agrees with this statement. That’s my “logical” conclusion. LOL

[Reply]
Comment by Jocelyn @ A Pondering Heart :

All I can interject at this moment is this:
Of all the logic books or theories or debates on this subject, where do we find the answers to such questions?
And, is that book not sufficient to teach us in wisdom and to ‘help us grow in stature’ as it did Jesus? (I know it was a different set of books)

Did Jesus study logic? If so, what?
Did He implore his disciples to?
Maybe the disagreement here lies in the definitions as being formal and informal teaching of logic.

I know we cannot escape our world or our society, but we are called to try to. Be in this world, but not of it. I believe logic, as given by God, is necessary. I do not believe we need to read Plato and the other Greek philosophers to live in the Wisdom and logic that God already had placed in His Word. It is sufficient.
I do not believe logic is evil. I do not believe teaching logic is evil, either. And, actually, I have never had formal teaching on “the sufficiency of Scripture”; I just know God and His Word, and it is sufficient.
I am quite a logical person myself, as are my children. I do know that my logic, not having been borne in the Word when I was a child, but rather in worldly humanism, is sometimes my downfall, when it comes to God’s love.

Perhaps therein lies the difference. Logic is just logic. It is man’s logic. It is proving my point. God’s logic, His Wisdom and knowledge…. they are laced with the goodness of God and His plan and, well, Him. It is not prideful or hateful or boastful. It is not demanding. It is God-ful. Boy, that sounds like 1Cor. 13.

If we as Believers will ‘study to show thyself approved’ in all we can, do we need formal logic? Will we not get that logic from the Word itself? And if not, why not? If logic is necessary in some instances, then surely it is something God has already provided for that we can get from studying His Word, even as an informal aside.

I do not believe this is an education issue. If we do not teach formal logic, it does not mean our children will not be logical thinkers. Homeschooling, for the Believer, in its essence, is a means to teach logic by example and in daily life according to God’s Word. Informally. There is a logic in God’s Word. It is logic, because God is logical. But as Heather said, It ends in faith. Or perhaps it begins there.

Stranded on an island, I’d want my Bible. It *is* sufficient in all things.
I feel like I am stranded on an island. It’s called Earth!

blessings,
Jacque

[Reply]
Comment by Jacque Dixon :

Guess I should have checked that login information. lol.

Logic told me that this is my computer and I am always signed in on it here, so I didn’t check.
hahaha

Anyway that was me, not Jocelyn. Though you may want to check out her blog, its pretty neat.
blessings,
Jacque
http://homeschoolblogger.com/JacqueDixonSoulRestes

[Reply]
Comment by admin :

>>Logic told me that this is my computer and I am always signed in on it here, so I didn’t check. hahaha<<<<

LOL, thanks for lighting things up Jacque.

I just got home and started reading the comments. Interesting discussion. eh? Makes you think.

The people that know me and read this blog know I believe study is of utmost importance. Bible study is a from of worship. I never meant nor inferred to anyone to “bury our minds in a box.” My unit studies have students delve deeoply into history and science and critical thinking , logic, and reasoning skills. I don’t see a need for formal logic for my children.

As I said in the original post logic is not evil and there are several tools to study logic from a Christian view. Someone called to politics may certainly benefit from studying formal logic.

Again my point was to not lose focus. Formal logic is VERY time consuming, if needed fine. But not everyone needs formal logic just as not everyone needs trigonometry.

There are some GREAT thought provoking comments made here. I’m going back to reread as soon as I can…back to my family now.
Blessings,
Robin

[Reply]
Comment by admin :

I want to explain why I am passionate about using caution with the Greek ways. Much of the early church incorporated Greek logic, reasoning and ideology into the church. I’ll be glad to post to explain (but it will be a looong post)

Many early Christians merged Scripture with the Greek Philosopher’s writings. The result was poor theology, wrong translations and blatant mistranslation of scripture. We have to wade through Geek thought, ideology, and antisemitism.

We have to stop the church’s 2,000 year old attempt to divorce itself from its Hebraic roots.

When we do return to the ways of the church before the Greek influence, we ca be effective witness to Israel (They aren’t going to replace Passover feast with the Easter Bunny nor will they replace Sabbath rest with Sunday ham dinner). The Jews will never accept Jesus as long as Christians proclaim Torah is extinct.

I know this a turn off onto a bunny trail but now you know why I am passionate about this topic.

At the time of the writing of the Bible there were two types of popular wisdom: that from God sought after by the Hebrews, and that of the world sought after by the Greeks.

Biblical wisdom is the teaching of a personal God who is holy and just and who expects those who know Him to exhibit His character in the many practical affairs of life. This perfect blend of the revealed will of a holy God with the practical human experiences of ife is also distinct from the speculative wisdom of the Greeks. The ethical dynamic of Greek philosophy lay in the intellect; if a person had perfect knowledge he could live the good life (Plato). Knowledge was virtue. The emphasis of Bible wisdom is that the human will, in the realm of practical matters, is to be subject to divine causes. Therefore,Hebrew wisdom was not theoretical and speculative. It was practical, based on revealed principles of right and wrong, to be lived out in daily life.

According to the Bible, a wise person is known by actions which honor God, by choices based on mature spiritual understanding and a desire to instruct others in the way of wisdom. To become wise is to take on the character of God in love and concern for His people and His creation. True wisdom is found only in God. The amazing thing about Godly wisdom is once you begin to grow in it you realize it was always there. It is more like it needs to be recognized rather than learned. God’s Spirit reveals it to you as you become open to receiving it.

Blessings,
Robin

[Reply]
Comment by admin :

Robert Jenson once put it:

“Scripture’s story is not part of some larger narrative; it is itself the larger narrative of which all other true narratives are parts. And so do not when reading Scripture try to figure out how what you are reading fits into some larger story; for there is no larger story.”

This is true whether we are talking about biology, political science, aesthetics or logic. Disconnected from the biblical story, such disciplines can tell us how things work but not what they are for; how to clone a human baby but not whether this should be done; how to construct an atomic bomb but not whether it should be used; how to build a maximum security prison but not how to treat the prisoners.

[Reply]
Comment by MamaArcher :

oh boy! I was not going to chime in on this but was asked to prayerfully give my opinion so here I am. There is a lot of reading here and I am trying to digest it! I find myself agreeing with and disagreeing with the points of view listed here. I will say up front that I am a classical christian homeschooler and we do study logic (not as in depth as some because of time constraints). My husband is a minister and we LOVE theology. We believe in systematic theology also. It provides a framework of study and shows how the Word of God works together and how seeming contradictions are not contradictions at all. I have not had the time yet to get into apologetics, though it does interest me. I say this so that you know where I am coming from.

I do not believe that logic is the definer of truth and I agree that there is faulty logic, I also do not think that the baby should be thrown out with the bathwater.

Maybe it is my incorrect thinking however I do not divorce critical thinking from logic. I see them as being related, connected, maybe even as the same. Teaching logic and fallacies in thought process, to me, is teaching critical thinking. It teaches children to discover when a thought process is incorrect. You cannot just tell someone to think for themselves but then give them no basis for evaluating HOW to think for themselves. I also acknowledge that God’s ways are not our way’s. That does not mean that we quit thinking only that we take every thought captive to the Word of God. If our thinking does not fall in line with the Word then our thinking is incorrect. That does not mean that we cannot think correctly at all.

It depends on one’s world view and basis of life. If an individual is based and grounded in scripture and builds all things on the Word of God then logic can be an aid. I do not believe that there really are contradictions in scripture. God is not a God of confusion. I believe that what people see as a contradiction is really just a lack of understanding and wisdom. That may be for many reasons. It may be that the individual is trying to fit God into their preconceived view of who God is or a system of belief (what many like to call a “box”), it may be that God has simply not revealed it to that individual yet, or it may be a mystery of the Lord we will not know until a later time. Contrasting a human verses God’s perspective I do not think is the same as a contradiction. Those vantage points may be contrary to the other but contrasting is not necessarily the same as contradicting. Logic should also take a back seat to the Word of God. We must never let it be the definer of truth. If God’s Word does not fit into our equation then we must be willing to let that equation go and trust in the Word.
If there is something in the Word we do not understand, I do not think we should just chalk it up to a mystery and not try to understand it. It is in the times when we do not understand and we seek the Lord and study that we are grown. Experience with out seeking and studying the word is just as faulty as seeking and studying with out experiencing the Lord in our life.

I also acknowledge that there are those who have very well thought out and logical arguments that are very wrong. Most often that comes from where they start and what they base their argument on, you will often find that basis faulty. There are many who can sincerely and logically believe in something that is completely false, but makes sense logically speaking. That does not mean that we should not think logically and have things well thought out but only that we must make sure that our beginning premise is based on the Word of God. The closer one is to the Lord and systematically studying the doctrines (teachings) of the Word of God, the more we take every thought captive to Christ, the more we begin to see and understand the mind of Christ and gain wisdom. God is a God of order and I believe that we were created to evaluate things in order, God can use orderly thinking. It is our responsibility to ensure that we do not forget our position before the Lord and let our thinking rise higher in esteem above the wisdom of the Lord.

I know this is long, but I also want to place a caution. I have dealt with many a christian who has no logical sense. When speaking of the things of God there are many contradictions they put forth within the character of God and how He works. They do not see these differences because they have not been taught how to think systematically and with the whole of scripture in mind. For example, one will say they believe in the sovereignty of God but then turn and say something else that negates that He is sovereign. It will then be chalked up to a mystery of God and left at that. To me this is placing God in that box and being unwilling to grow because it challenges what we would like to believe. Thinking deeply. logically, systematically, and most importantly with a biblical foundation underneath and all throughout, is difficult work. It challenges us and often brings cause for change(sometimes unwanted change) in our lives.

So in summary, I see the harm in teaching logic without the Word as foundation and the harm in not teaching it at all. We teach it some when time allows. All things must be in submission to God!

We must also not forget the element of faith. Faith is something that cannot necessarily be logically explained, at least not by one who does not own it and have confidence in it.

So now that I have written this, I do not know if I answered anything or just went off on a tangent. This was written with prayer so hopefully what the Lord wanted me to express is here and helpful. I also wonder how many “logic” mistakes I made in this post! HA!

Here is a quote from R.C. Sproul

There is benefit to culture derived when Christianity enjoys a status of intellectual credibility. When the faith is relegated to a reservation of personal religion or piety based solely on sentiment, it has difficulty informing the institutions that shape culture. Where Christian truth is established with credibility, it has a salutary effect on culture.

The apologetic task is difficult, complex, and never-ending. Yet it is the mandate of God to us. The responsibility is ours; its success is God’s.

Excerpt taken from Tabletalk magazine, July 1991

Another thought came to mind. It was mentioned “secular” logic verses non-secular. If there are two different types of logic does that mean we cannot use the secular? I look at it this way, does one who needs a phsychiatrist not go because they have secular training? Possibly but there are some who really need it, they have a mental illness. The key for the christian is to take the advice given only if it is in submission to the Word of God. All things must be in submission and under the authority of the Lord.

[Reply]
Comment by Carol :

To be honest, all of this “to logic or not to logic” has my mind spinning tonight. Right now, I think it is most important to teach my children from the Word, following the guidance of the Spirit. I used to think gaining knowledge was a thing to be proud of, but now what I want most for my kids is that they learn to hear the voice of God and follow it. If they never learn how to think, but do learn how to hear God’s voice, I believe they will have learned enough.

Carol

[Reply]
Comment by Stacy H :

I believe Robin is asking us to consider how much time we spend training our children’s hearts vs. how much time we spend training their minds. Is the majority of our time spent teaching them the ways of the Lord or the ways of the world? Do our children know the Truth of the Word because of study and prayer or do they know the interpretation of man behind a religious doctrine or philosophy? Do they know what they believe and why they believe it? Are we teaching them to have a relationship with the Lord and how to know Him more? What type of fruit is being produced by the methods of teaching we use?

Our children are gifts from God. They are His….we simply have been entrusted with raising them for the Kingdom of God. When we stand before God we will be accountable for what WE taught them. Doesn’t the Word of God tell us to hide the Word in our hearts? I encourage everyone to do a word study. Pull out your own dictionaries, concordances, and commentaries. Spend time in prayer and find for yourselves what the words logic, rhetoric, dialectic, knowledge, wisdom and understanding mean. Pray and ask the Lord for revelation in your studies. Are all of the above words used in the Bible?

If this topic has “gotten under your skin a bit” then ask the Lord why. Seek His wisdom and knowledge in this area. You will not return empty handed if you truly want to know His revelation for you. Matthew 6:33 says, “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.”

Blessings,
Stacy
in Arkansas

[Reply]
Comment by H0MEFree :

Well spoken, Stacy.

“consider how much time we spend training our children’s hearts vs. how much time we spend training their minds.”

[Reply]
Comment by Alicia :

A couple of things I just want to be clear on and would appreciate if people kept in mind.

My hope is that parents will raise their children to have a Biblical world view AND to think clearly based upon that Biblical world view.

Without the Biblical world view, they’re clear thinking cannot bring them to factual conclusions and without clear thinking they will be unprepared to address the claim of those with a non Biblical world view that Biblical faith is blind and irrational because they will not be capable of identifying the very simple logical fallacies in such an assertion and the false premises upon which it is based.

When our premises are founded upon Scripture, our faith appears quite obviously logical. When one’s premises are founded elsewhere, our faith appears to them as illogical. That is not two different logics.

Formal logic does not supply the premise – that is supplied by our philosophy or world view.

Hence, formal logic and Greek philosophy are not inextricably linked together any more than the Pythagorean Theorem requires ones assent to Greek philosophy.

[Reply]
Comment by admin :

Great quote Gerry–“They’re educated beyond their intelligence.”

Bottom line, God’s Word says, “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.”

[Reply]
Comment by Penney Douglas :

Hi,

I’m nervous about jumping in here at all. I kind of feel like the guy in the comic up there who brought play-doh to class instead of the book about Plato he was supposed to bring. I don’t know anything about teaching formal logic. Are some homeschoolers teaching formal logic like that taught by Aristotle, and do they teach a way of persuading people of anything, whether it’s true or not? Is that what comes of studying reasoning? I can see how that would lead to knowledge that puffs up. I haven’t ever learned about logic myself or taught my children logic. The Fallacy Detective looks good. I think I may get it some day and use it with my kids.

I think one of the main points that Robin makes in her post is that there is a difference between Hebrew thought and Greek thought. Until we realize that we have been trained in the Greek way all of our lives and begin to ask the Lord to show us how He feels about things and what He thinks, we will have a hard time understanding many things in the Bible. Hebrew thought started with the Scriptures and revolved around the Scriptures, and they learned to interpret everything through the Scriptures. God started His dealings with man with the Hebrews. A lot has been lost to us through the centuries. We don’t understand many of the cultural traditions, meanings and worldviews of the Eastern world, the world God started with. That’s not to say it’s impossible for us Western gentile believers to understand Scripture, but it will help us immensely if we learn about Hebrew understandings and worldview. I am a total novice when it comes to such things, but I believe that God is leading many believers to study Hebrew roots and Hebrew writings so that we will have a more thorough understanding of Scripture and a more correct interpretation of seeming contradictions. I may be way off from what Robin was trying to get across, but I sensed this was part of what her point was.

I also think Robin is saying that it is good for us to think logically and to teach our children to think logically. She just has a problem with teaching formal logic and spending all the time it takes to teach it.

Love,
Penney

[Reply]
Comment by Pure and Sensible :

Alicia,
Your husband made the following claims in his article (I parenthesized his words):

“Men are creatures of reasoning.” Reasoning…I agree.

“There are not many logics, or polylogism as it is called.” From what source of reference is he coming to this conclusion? See the definitions of “logic” below.

“…a thing cannot be what it is and not what it is in the same way at the same time…These rules do not change based on how you look at life. What then is the writer of the article trying to say?…miscategorization of what logic really is.” This is Robin’s point of encouraging us not to use a formal study of “logic” as derived from pagan “Greek” philosophers. Robin has correctly applied the definition of logic and Greek logic.

“…what was called repeatedly “critical thinking” is logical thinking.” Critical thinking is the mental process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and evaluating information to reach an answer or conclusion vs. logic being the “method”, art, branch, or science of reasoning. The first definition of logic among several resources are:

* The SCIENCE that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

* A particular METHOD of reasoning or argumentation.

* The STUDY of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.

* A BRANCH of philosophy and mathematics that deals with the formal principles, methods and criteria of validity of inference, reasoning and knowledge.

* or Noah Webster’s 1828 definition: The ART of thinking and reasoning justly.

For example: Since I, personally, have had no “formal” education in logic (especially that in classical/Greek logic though), I may or may not be able to formulate an Aristolean reasoning, but I CAN think critically. (I don‘t know what Aristolean reasoning would be. You can put in any other philosopher. I just meant that any formulation from this type of logic would be achieved through “indirect” teaching/learning.)

“Both of these are not different logics, but rather the same principles of logic with different premises. The Greeks were empiricists and based their premises on experience, so you will tend to see a somewhat consistent (though ultimately faulty) “step” process of thought in their arguments. The Hebrews however, had revelation and therefore their premises were based on the Scripture instead. Mention was made of many paradoxes in Hebrew thought because they truth for them was derived from propositions found in the Scripture. The crux of this matter is quite simple: they did not have Christ. Christ is the Logos, which is the Greek word for logic. Logic, like mathematics, must be applied correctly.”

Logic may be the classical Greek translation of logos. But, the Greek word “logos” in the Bible [according to Strong‘s concordance G3056] means speech, OR used as a respect to the mind alone (as in reasoning), OR in the gospel of John, to denote the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world’s life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man’s salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.

Heraclitus, a Greek philosopher, first used the term logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. But, Heraclitus was not the first to use the word logos. There is no univocal word, logos, and if there ever was one, its meaning is lost in history. We are not shocked to learn that Heraclitus’ worldview did not align with ours, or more importantly, the Word of God.

It is also interesting to note that the actual word “logic” was not used in any Bible translation until the NLT paraphrase. The NLT paraphrases the word “speeches” or “arguments” in Job 32:14 as “human reasoning or logic“ and the word “man” in Gal 1:11 [G444] as logic. The word in Job 32:13 is ‘emer [H561] which means “utterance, speech, word, saying, promise, command“. The word in Gal 1:11 is “anthropos” meaning “a human being, whether male or female – with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led into a mistake or prompted to sin”.

I am presently being tested in knowing why I believe what I believe (in other venues). I have no problem humbly lining up with Truth if I am in contradiction to God‘s Word. I am forced to think critically about certain issues using a combination of knowledge, Truth, faith, and reasoning – NOT logic, as previously defined. For me, everything is based upon and contrasted against my foundation, or worldview. Since I am a Gentile believer, having been schooled mostly from an atheist/humanistic worldview, this can be challenging. But, then again, I am reassured that God‘s ways are higher than our ways, and His thoughts than our thoughts “as the heavens are higher than the earth“ (Is 55:9) and that “the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart“ (Heb 4:12). Though I disagree with your opposing viewpoints, I am thankful that you brought them up because they have challenged me and I have learned so much.

[Reply]
Comment by Pure and Sensible :

Robin,
WOW!!! Reading this now could not have come at a better time! I am humbled by the Holy Spirit‘s leading. When you first posted this Robin, I have to admit it was too long for me to finish. (sorry) I really felt overwhelmed when I first began reading through this post today AND the other post written by one of your commenters. My head was spinning with not having a clue at the usage of such BIG and unfamiliar words pertaining to “logic“. I must also admit that this topic does not impassion me for some reason, probably because I do not understand the breadth and depth of it. After defining many of the words I did not understand, I have to say that I agree with your post completely, Robin.

Your commenters have brought up some great points as well. I have chuckled through some of them. Great point Stacy…and Penney…I brought my Play-Dough, too! Lol

I am presently being tested in knowing why I believe what I believe (in other venues). I have no problem humbly lining up with Truth if I am in contradiction to God‘s Word. I am forced to think critically about certain issues using a combination of knowledge, Truth, faith, and reasoning – NOT logic. For me, everything is based upon and contrasted against my foundation, or worldview. Since I am a Gentile believer, having been schooled mostly from an atheist/humanistic worldview, this can be challenging. But, then again, I am reassured that “God’s ways are above my ways and so are His thoughts.”

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought these were some of the major points of your article:

#1 First of all, there is no disagreement with Christ and His Word being paramount in our homes, not just our “school”, among us Christians. But, it is a great admonition to many of us who have been guilty of exalting anything over it.

#2 We have to be careful about systematically studying or categorizing God in any way. I might even venture out on a limb (and suffer criticism) and include hermeneutics in this, when it is taught as a method. (BTW, I HIGHLY value scholarly work. After all, we wouldn‘t have the Word of God in English if it weren‘t for their work.)

#3 Although your points can rightfully be argued against teaching various forms of “logic”, I thought you were specifically addressing “Greek” logic, since Classical Education has been exalted in education – both secular and Christian, in and out of the home. (The Heart of Wisdom Teaching Approach wonderfully addresses these issues in great detail.) I am personally not well versed in Greek logic or any other type of formal logic. With regards to teaching “formal logic” to my young children, we must first understand the worldview behind the philosophers who introduce(d) these methods of thinking. Do/did their worldviews align with the Word of God? So far, I am against using a “classical” model of instruction or “Greek logic” (as a formal science) with my young children simply because of the answers to the questions I posed previously. My hesitancy with considering and adopting anyone’s teaching is to consider the answers to these questions and the Word of God.

#4 Critical thinking and logic are NOT the same. I agree with your statement, Robin, that “…we have validated that reasoning is an important skill, but we must also recognize that there is an innate weakness in human logic. Logic means correct reasoning, but following logic does not always produce a valid conclusion. If there is not enough information or wrong information is in the chain of reasoning, the conclusion will be wrong.”

I agree that logic has its limits – even as evidenced in mathematics and science. Why is there such a number as infinity? We cannot measure time or space in it’s entirety. I have addressed this in more detail, from my understanding of logic, to one of your commenters. Please correct me if I am wrong. I have much to learn about in this area. Thank you for your boldness to stand in Truth, even when it stirs up disagreement.

Oh and one more thing…completely off topic…I didn’t think apologetics (worldview training) and teaching formal logic (art of reasoning) were the same thing. But, are some proposing they intertwined in some ways – perhaps, using formal logic to understand apologetics???

[Reply]
Comment by Pure and Sensible :

Robin, I just realized that I wrote in my very last comment:
“apologetics (worldview trainng)”

But, I wanted to clarify, I should have written apologetics (and worldview training)…

[Reply]
Comment by KD :

Robinm You said that human reasoning is limited by experience. That is true, but more than that, human reasoning is imperfect because man is sinful. If you begin an argument using human reasoning, you will most certainly reach a false conclusion. Man’s mind is part of fallen creation. Our thoughts simply cannot reason perfectly until God, in His grace, chooses to regenerate us, give us new life and open our blind eyes and give us the mind of Christ.

I do not see any reason to defend the Bible using logic – ever.
The Bible is self-authenticating. When God gives new life and sight
to a believer, that person immediately sees that the Bible is true.

This is something that can only be wrought by God. No amount of human reasoning will ever prove to an unbeliever that God’s word is truth. Unbelievers are enemies of God and are in rebellion towards Him. They have no choice but to reject God. It is only when God initiates salvation that a person can then respond with faith – faith given as a gift by God.

Until a person is saved by God he will always perceive his world incorrectly and will therefore always reach false conclusions about every philosophical dilemma.

[Reply]
Comment by admin :

Stacy put this long post in a nutshell beautifully:

“…how much time we spend training our children’s hearts vs. how much time we spend training their minds…”

Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom.

[Reply]
Comment by Dana B. :

I have really struggled with whether or not to comment on this issue. I was asked to pray about it & that is what I have done. I don’t have long words on this subject, simply because as I have learned to let the Spirit lead our studies, He has not led me to bring a formal logic course into our day.

We begin our morning with Bible studies and with that come many great conversations about how to apply the knowledge we are gaining. If the Lord did impress on my heart to bring Logic into our daily studies I would have to trust that it is because one of my children will need this in the future.
Each of us as we homeschool our children are accomplishing different missions. The purpose and plan for my family is different than for yours. If you are passionate about teaching your children logic ask yourself why and is it a passion placed there by the Lord. Or is it just to keep up with other homeschoolers. I know that when we first began I forced my daughters through a Latin course. While it was good for them, my reasons for doing it were all wrong. It made me look really good to others to say that my little girls were learning Latin. My intentions were all wrong and selfish. Examine your heart as to why you do what you do in your school. Is it done to prepare your children for whatever purpose God has for them? Or does it just make you look really good to others. We homeschoolers put a lot of pressure on each other to keep up with each other & I am tired of it. My school functions differently from yours, but that is o’k because our mission is different than yours.

I don’t have very much time left in my day and I can’t afford to fill it with things that don’t count in my calling as a homeschooling mom. I HAVE to be very careful with what uses up my time as it is so short & precious.

I agree that Logic isn’t all bad, just the reasons behind it can be. If we are starting in the Word first and truely seeking HIM in our day, as the educators and then leading with our children then our delights will become like HIS. Like you reminded us Robin, “Seek ye first…” and “He shall supply all our needs” and “give us the delights of our heart” If that involves Logic or not we are to be obediant and allow the blessings to fall.

Thanks Robin for making us think hard about why we are doing what we are doing.

[Reply]
Comment by Amanda :

“At the time the humans still knew pretty well when a thing was proved and when it was not; and it it was proved they really believed it. They still connected thinking with doing and were prepare to alter their way of life as the result of a chain of reasoning.
But what with the weekly press and other such weapons we have largely altered that. You man has been accustomed, ever since he was a boy, to have a dozen incompatible philosophies dancing together inside his head. He doesn’t think of doctrines as primarily ‘true’ or ‘false’, but as ‘academic’ or ‘practical’, ‘outworn’ or ‘contemporary’, ‘conventional’ or ruthless’.”
-The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis

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Comment by Janis Miller :

Great question! True, the world’s logic is not always God’s logic. The study of any topic needs to be spiritually guided, and logic should be taught from that perspective. It is good to be aware of worldly logic. It can help us to understand the worldly aspect so we can compare and contrast it to the spiritual aspect. Knowing how to use logic and reason in a worldly aspect can be an asset in teaching spiritually to those that do no comprehend God’s logic. One of the best sermons I have heard showing this skill is here http://tinyurl.com/56x5vb

[Reply]
Comment by Anne-Marie :

Man’s Logic seems subjective and illogical to me. I think it’s another high-minded elitist ego trip meant to intimidate the general population who are just as smart or smarter than the high-minded elitists.

The book of Proverbs is full of common sense (logic) teaching. Ten Commandments are pretty straightforward. I don’t need logic symbols or a Venn diagram to see that 1 True God does not equal any god or gods…etc. Right and wrong…it’s really not that complicated.

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About Robin

Homeschool mother for over 20 years, Robin Sampson learned to rely on the Word of God to lead her homeschool efforts.

She encourages homeschoolers to develop a relationship with God and make Bible the focus of the homeschool day. Her 11 children range in ages 9-36. Read about her homeschool journey here.
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Should Homeschoolers Teach Logic?

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